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HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-11 04:12:53

Hi folks,

I just received my POD HD 500. I was eager to test this device and so I hooked it up to the PWR AMP-Input of my Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. Initial surprise: Being operated that way, the amp is obviously bypassing any volume-knob whatsoever. So the only volume adjustments I can make are provided by the POD, with the amp running at some unknown output-level. Fine, could live with that...

BUT: When I crank up the POD the overall-output of this combination is still fairly low, taking into consideration that with a guitar hooked up to the amp the "usual way", volume at 4 makes your ears bleed (it's 40W all-tube).

I am using the preamp-models on the POD with LINE-output engaged and output set to COMBO PWR-AMP, all volume-controls on the POD at 10.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by Rowbi on 2011-02-11 05:08:33

is there an amp/line switch on your POD ( i think it's near the exp pedal) that needs to be line.

but with non master volume amps, there may be some really high signals from the preamp to the poweramp.

can you up the pod volume using the drive and channel vol (leave the master low for now so you don't all of a sudden make your ears bleed).  also the mixer after the amps block can have the output raised.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by dftpunk on 2011-02-11 05:18:19

I've faced it many times with Amps without dedicated Power Amp Volume (Master) knob. The only thing could save you is "boost 12db" or something like this switch on the amp if it exists. I still think it's the problem of Amp and the reason is weak power amp. If the amp by itself could make your ears bleed and the power amp of this amp can't - it means that pre amp section of your amp does all the job. Correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way you still may use the regular input of your amp with  knobs set at "indifferent" positions and Stack/Combo Front mode of  the POD. It will sounds near the way it should but IMHO this is not "kosher" if you know what I'm saying - I think you should avoid pre amp section if you're using amp modelling in your POD.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by dftpunk on 2011-02-11 05:19:52

but with non master volume amps, there may be some really high signals from the preamp to the poweramp.

It's not a problem. You could always use MASTER volume knob of your POD.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-11 06:17:20

Thanks for your input guys! The thing is: LINE is already activated and all other "volumes" cranked but still the signal coming from the POD is somehow unsatisfying in terms of volume/output. Sure, I could use the "usual" way and go into the guitar in of my amp. But since I dig the combination of POD's preamp and my amp's power amp section soundwise, that's not the way to go. Additionally I then would have to bypass the POD's modeling altogether if I don't want two preamps (namely, the amp's preamp and the modelled one in the POD) in my signal chain.

Any other ideas?

Or could I expect a higher output by chosing DIRECT/STUDIO instead of COMBO PWR AMP in the settings menu?

@dftpunk:

Obviously the amp's preamp is doing all the job. I want my POD's output raised to replace it not only sound-wise but volume-wise as well.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by dftpunk on 2011-02-11 06:42:30

Unfortunately POD's output is not as loud as some real pre amps We just can't see this when we use 100 watt stacks because we dont need such a loud sound. But good amp will always sound louder than pod + Amp's power Amp on the same settings.

You could try DIRECT/STUDIO mode and it should be louder. However there could be some (insignificant?) differences in the sound I suppose as this mode is designed for mixers and PA's.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-11 07:20:05

Hm...somehow disappointing. I thought I could easily bypass my original preamp and go for some awesome overdriven sound generated by the POD. So it seems like "effects only" is the most stisfying solution. What a pity...



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by Rowbi on 2011-02-11 07:40:55

well if you put the pod in the FX loop and use for FX only, and that sounds loud enough... then the POD is outputting still to the amp's poweramp input.  if that is loud enough then there's something in the amp that's causing an issue.

my initial thought is that it needs to see something connected to the preamp output in order to properly let the poweramp input work.  as some amp designers don't have a lot or foresight, and assume if you're using the poweramp input, you of course must also use the preamp output too.

here's the schem... notice all the connections to the poweramp input jack.  that's what makes me think there's some funny switching going on here.

http://www.schematicx.com/view-schematic/fender-blues-deluxe-guitar-amplifier-schematic/

justto confirm, you have your guitar to pod guitar input, and pod left live output to the poweramp input on the fender.  and you're using a mono instrument cable from pod to amp??



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-11 07:52:49

Rowbi schrieb:


just to confirm, you have your guitar to pod guitar input, and pod left live output to the poweramp input on the fender.  and you're using a mono instrument cable from pod to amp??

Yes. That's exactly how it is set up.

Rowbi schrieb:

my initial thought is that it needs to see something connected to the preamp output in order to properly let the poweramp input work.  as some amp designers don't have a lot or foresight, and assume if you're using the poweramp input, you of course must also use the preamp output too.

I had this thought as well. I was wondering whether a dummy input on the amp's guitar-in or preamp-out (or both) could change anything. Goody idea or bad one?

Rowbi schrieb:

well if you put the pod in the FX loop and use for FX only, and that sounds loud enough... then the POD is outputting still to the amp's poweramp input.  if that is loud enough then there's something in the amp that's causing an issue.

Right. But I'd like to use the preamps of the POD.

Rowbi schrieb:

here's the schem... notice all the connections to the poweramp input jack.  that's what makes me think there's some funny switching going on here.

http://www.schematicx.com/view-schematic/fender-blues-deluxe-guitar-amplifier-schematic/

Thanksfor the link! Unfortunately I'm not really an expert in terms of electronics...I'm rather the user type of guy ;-)



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by dftpunk on 2011-02-12 01:53:40

Goody idea or bad one?

I don't think it's a really good idea becuse connecting a dummy cable or even a dummy jack into amps input can (will?) cause buzzes in pre amp section of the amp. However if your amp has FxSend/FxReturn 's levels you could try such solution turning Fx Send to 0.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-02-12 09:58:39

When plugging in to the power amp input or FX return on some amps (Line 6 DuoVerb and Line 6 Vetta are two examples), you must use a dummy plug in the standard front guitar input.  The fact that you are plugging in to a switched jack at the back of the amp in terms of the FX Return or Power Amp In particularly, any link between the amp's normal pre-amp section and its power amp section is broken, so buzzes from the front end won't be heard.  If you are at all worried, just use a standard jack plug with the tip connection soldered to the sleeve connection inside your dummy jack and it will be the same as having your guitar's volume knob turned down so no chance of a buzz.

So a dummy plug is sometimes the only way forward if the amp needs this to enable its FX loop or power amp input.

Nick



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-13 03:06:14

That's really sweet. I'll check that and report asap. Thanks!



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by vcuomo on 2011-02-13 15:28:40

dftpunk wrote:

I don't think it's a really good idea becuse connecting a dummy cable or even a dummy jack into amps input can (will?) cause buzzes in pre amp section of the amp. However if your amp has FxSend/FxReturn 's levels you could try such solution turning Fx Send to 0.

In this situation the "buzzes" won't matter because the preamp section of the amp is not in the signal chain.  The OP is going directly to the amp's power amp and is not connected to the amp's effects send jack.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by dftpunk on 2011-02-14 00:07:25

In this situation the "buzzes" won't matter because the preamp section of the amp is not in the signal chain.  The OP is going directly to the amp's power amp and is not connected to the amp's effects send jack.

I suppose this is true If FX Send is 0% and Fx Return is 100%. I dont know what configured by default in amps where there's no dedicated knobs for FX Send and Return.



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-18 01:16:07

Yesterday I could test the setup using a dummy-jack plugged into the guitar-in of my amp. Unfortunately this solution does not work for me: still no control over volume and tone via the amp's panel. Looks like I have to use the POD effects-only.



RE: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by Line6Hugo on 2011-02-18 09:20:46

Have you made sure to turn the amp model's volume all the way up. Also, if output is low, turning up the MIXER channel (A and B) volume levels is another setting to make sure to adjust. Panning in the mixer can adjust the volume as well. Centering the pan can give you a boost in volume.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by maktub2 on 2011-02-18 10:58:33

I've got the same issue but with a fender solid state. Guitar > Pedal board > PWR AMP IN. I had a different pedal board before and I never rolled the master volume beyond 3 or 4 and it was really loud!  With POD HD (switched to line) I have to set the master volume up to 85% when playing with the band. Of course I could use the mixer levels to boost the volume, but not shure if this is the proper solution.



Re: RE: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by corker on 2011-02-21 07:46:25

I guess the whole thing is not the POD's fault but rather the lack of a real master-volume on my amp. Increasing mixer-volume (good thinking!) and maybe adding a compressor model with output turned up can fix this partially. I am still baffled that going into PWR AMP IN on my amp bypasses ALL the controls...



Re: RE: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by cascrit on 2011-02-21 10:08:11

I have a peavey blues amp with a power amp input, no volume control, 40w...my POD is still ear splitting loud..I can't turn the pod past halfway. make sure you have triple checked everything.  make sure the line level switch is correct and that you have selected power amp in on the POD...i would try plugging something else into your power amp, something that you know what the volume level is, for exapmle a computer or laptop soundcard output.  listen in the headphones on the pod and the headphones on the computer.  if what you hear coming out of the pod is at the same level coming out of the computer,  then  you may be able to figure out where your problem is at



Re: RE: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by cGil on 2011-02-21 15:15:45

That's simply how the Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue was built.  Because of the design, if you're using the PowerAmp-In, but not using the signal from the Preamp-Out, then no preamp controls will work.  The Preamp-Out and PowerAmp-In are both located after the Master Vol.   They also happen to use their own halves of the same TL072 opamp as a driver for the Send, and as an input buffer for the Return.    After that, the signal splits to the reverb, so you should still have that Reverb knob working for ya, no matter what.    But the amp and HD500 really should make your ears bleed cuz from that input, the POD's hitting the PI and Power Tube section relatively wide open, and with benefit of input impedance matching and a little signal  boost from that opamp.  If the opamp is malfunctioning, that would cause a problem with the PowerAmp-In that wouldn't be noticed otherwise.  If it's wacky, the Preamp-Send may exhibit some problems, too; so that'd be a good thing to test with your POD, just because.  The TL072 is a standard 8-pin opamp, and should be easy to swap if it's socketed, but a minor nightmare to be clipped out and replaced by a technician if it's hard-soldered in.

That's it!  Except for maybe the footswitch, which seems to be tied to the signal path by the elaborate switching built into the PowerAmp-In jack.   Try stomping some of those footswitches.  Turn off the amp and unplug your footswitch (or, plug it in if it isn't already), then turn the amp back on and see if anything changes with regard to your inability to overdrive the Blues Deluxe with the HD500.

Oh and be sure the POD's volume pedal isn't causing you grief.  Toe Down!   The rest is sort of obvious as previously stated in this thread.  Use the left or right channel main unbalanced output jack of the HD500 and connect it with a guitar cable to your amp's PowerAmp-In jack.    Level Up!  Master Up!  Select "Line" for the top Line Level/Guitar Amp switch.  Prepare to bleed.  Arrrggh.

Gil...



Re: RE: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by cGil on 2011-02-21 15:19:48

Another thing to try is a squirt of ProGold contact treatment/cleaner into the PowerAmp-In jack.   With all that switching, not to mention that your entire signal's flowing through a jack, there's a lot of opportunity for dust to ruin your day.   I'd try that first, in fact.

Gil...



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by JimiHendrixfan1 on 2012-10-11 14:46:24

Hi All,

I know this original post was made back in 2011, but I found it while trying to resolve an issue I had concerning my Fender Blues Deluxe (FBD) Reissue Amp and thought I would post some info in case others have this problem in the furture.

I don't have ANY issues with using the POD HD500 with my Fender by using the following method:

Guitar into Input (1 or 2) of the Fender amp > Power Amp Out of the FBD into the Guitar In of the PHD500 and then 1/4" OUT L/Mono into the Fender's Power Amp IN

This allows you to use the FBD controls AND the footswitch that came with the amp as well as the controls of the PHD500.

I hope someone will find this helpful (if not, just ignore the man behing the curtain)



Re: HD 500 to PWR Amp: Volume?
by jimsreynolds on 2012-10-12 05:44:14

That is a good and valid setup.  You have to bear in mind though that the Fender Pre-amp is now always in line with your setup .... effectively you are using the Pod as a stompbox in the amp loop.


The Fender pre-amp will always colour your tone before it gets to the pod.  If you are using FX Only, this is no issue at all when using  stuff like delays and reverbs on the POD and some modulations too.  Distortions and wahs may sound odd though.  Normally they go in front of an amp.

If, however, you are using amp modelling then you are always going to be hearing the Fender Pre-amp first.  This may not sound 'bad' but it may seriously limit how much you can modify the sound to sound like how you want it.  

It's the usual deal .... the configuration isn't 'wrong' it just has some limitations.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.